Freedomain Radio

I haven't been single for more than two months since I was a teenager. It's been more than a month since I ended my last relationship. I don't react this way to random women when I'm in a relationship - at least to this extent - so it's something of a new experience for me.

Every time I see an attractive young woman walking down the street, I have a series of strong emotional responses to my thoughts.

Wow. Look at that hair/body/face/skin. Then I stare for an uncomfortably long period of time, so long as I can get away with it. My feet often start to get weak, and I have trouble walking straight. My eyes pop out and start moving rapidly. I feel the need to blink many times.

Then, I start to feel anxious and angry. "There you go again, a slave to beauty." I tend to purse my lips and grit my teeth. My toes curl up and I ball my fists so tightly around my thumbs that they feel like they're going to pop. I start to feel very frustrated, and have random self-destructive thought outbursts, like "Go bash out your brains on the nearest concrete surface," but those tend to fade out quickly.

I know this sounds kind of creepy - I mean, it is - but it's what goes on in my head while I'm single, and it probably has to do with why I've avoided it so tenaciously. It was bad last month, and it just gets worse. It could just be "normal" for me, and I don't want to get into a habit of suppressing my feelings of attraction, but I guess it's in order for the moment. No matter what, I get upset for not acting on my feelings.

So, right now, I have a goal to stay single for six months while I ramp up therapy. What am I doing wrong? How can I shape my behavior and thoughts to help me achieve that goal? I know it would be easier for me if I just basically live as a shut-in for the next six months, but I'm afraid that it wouldn't be good practice at all for forming better relationships in the future. I do want to reach out, make more meatspace friendships, but I'm also fairly confident that I will steer any relationship I have with a woman I find attractive to romance, either subconsciously or consciously. It "just happens" (yeah, right). That could be a myth that prevents me from developing stronger friendships, but past actions on my part indicate that prudence might be in order.

I have to confess that I have no idea how some people go for years staying single. I can't conceive of it for myself.

I basically wanted to do this back in Feb., but I screwed the pooch so to speak.

I have to confess that I have no idea how some people go for years staying single. I can't conceive of it for myself.

That recipe will last you about 20 years.

Suspicion of what? I'm not sure what you mean.

I felt anxious when I read "That recipe will last you for a lifetime," even though I know that you weren't likely actually referring to me.

I don't see refraining from relationships as a recipe for happiness, of course, just hopefully as a method of breaking from old habits and developing more of an independent identity.

I'm not sure that I even have a distinct personality when I'm outside of a relationship. It's like a hefty fraction of my brain just goes black, and I get routinely wracked by emotional storms of anxiety and sadness. I barely feel like a human being. Sometimes, I feel normal for a little while when a woman looks at me. Today, while I was running, a young woman pushing a stroller looked in my direction for 10 seconds, and I felt a tremendous wave of relief. I spent the next five minutes speculating as to whether she was a mother or a babysitter.

Sorry, JC. You're right, I was referring to me. I was suspicious of my desires. Suspicious of my emotions. Suspicious of the motivations of women as a whole. Suspicious of people who claimed to be happy in their relationships... you name it, I was suspicious of it. You were wondering how people last as long as they do outside of a relationship. That's how I did it. My reply wasn't at all meant as a recipe for happiness. I certainly wasn't...

When you say you feel "normal" when a woman looks at you, what does that mean? What is that "normal" feeling? And, what does is the implication, to you, if she does not look at you?

I was suspicious of my desires. Suspicious of my emotions. Suspicious of the motivations of women as a whole. Suspicious of people who claimed to be happy in their relationships... you name it, I was suspicious of it. You were wondering how people last as long as they do outside of a relationship. That's how I did it. My reply wasn't at all meant as a recipe for happiness. I certainly wasn't...

Thanks.

When you say you feel "normal" when a woman looks at you, what does that mean? What is that "normal" feeling? And, what does is the implication, to you, if she does not look at you?

I have a permanent discomfort located around the area of my solar plexus. I'm not sure whether to call it anxiety, sadness or what. It goes away when a woman just looks at me, but it's gone also of course if I'm just talking to a woman. Technically, I've been in relationships since I was 15 almost without a break, so it is actually "normal" for me.

*edit*

I thought of a pretty good metaphor for my issue. I'm like a vampire working on a cure for my own vampirism. I could also just "drink blood" - get into another relationship without putting in all the time in therapy that I need to in order to reconfigure my core values and build self esteem - and it would give me relief, but it would only exacerbate my underlying issue.

I have to confess that I have no idea how some people go for years staying single. I can't conceive of it for myself.

Heh, I'm just the opposite. I have no idea how some people can't stay single. I've had my share of short term relationships and a few one night stands, but for the most part, my life has been all about long term relationships punctuated by even longer periods of not being involved with anyone.

You may relate to this. The quintessential Idiot full of Lust for Life & intelligent humour :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SV5IePejNnI

JC Hewitt:

I haven't been single for more than two months since I was a teenager. It's been more than a month since I ended my last relationship. I don't react this way to random women when I'm in a relationship - at least to this extent - so it's something of a new experience for me.

Every time I see an attractive young woman walking down the street, I have a series of strong emotional responses to my thoughts.

Wow. Look at that hair/body/face/skin. Then I stare for an uncomfortably long period of time, so long as I can get away with it. My feet often start to get weak, and I have trouble walking straight. My eyes pop out and start moving rapidly. I feel the need to blink many times.

Then, I start to feel anxious and angry. "There you go again, a slave to beauty." I tend to purse my lips and grit my teeth. My toes curl up and I ball my fists so tightly around my thumbs that they feel like they're going to pop. I start to feel very frustrated, and have random self-destructive thought outbursts, like "Go bash out your brains on the nearest concrete surface," but those tend to fade out quickly.

I know this sounds kind of creepy - I mean, it is - but it's what goes on in my head while I'm single, and it probably has to do with why I've avoided it so tenaciously. It was bad last month, and it just gets worse. It could just be "normal" for me, and I don't want to get into a habit of suppressing my feelings of attraction, but I guess it's in order for the moment. No matter what, I get upset for not acting on my feelings.

So, right now, I have a goal to stay single for six months while I ramp up therapy. What am I doing wrong? How can I shape my behavior and thoughts to help me achieve that goal? I know it would be easier for me if I just basically live as a shut-in for the next six months, but I'm afraid that it wouldn't be good practice at all for forming better relationships in the future. I do want to reach out, make more meatspace friendships, but I'm also fairly confident that I will steer any relationship I have with a woman I find attractive to romance, either subconsciously or consciously. It "just happens" (yeah, right). That could be a myth that prevents me from developing stronger friendships, but past actions on my part indicate that prudence might be in order.

I have to confess that I have no idea how some people go for years staying single. I can't conceive of it for myself.

I basically wanted to do this back in Feb., but I screwed the pooch so to speak.

I don't think there is any inherent wrong at ALL in valuing looks or physical attractiveness.  IMO, the problem comes into play when looks alone is the factor in choosing dates.  I think recognizing beauty is rational, to a good degree.  Humans are visual creatures and physical attractiveness can denote good health or good genes.

Out of curiosity, how have the women that you've dated perceived their appearance? Would you describe it as a positive relationship with their own looks, or a negative one? Are you living your values? How has it worked out for you? I've noticed that this is the second thread that you've expressed this belief, but you've refrained from bringing in a personal anecdote to support your opinion.

Did you think that I'm ignorant of what you're talking about? Do you think that the issue that I'm describing is exclusively related toward being attracted to women just for their looks?

It could be that I've just rolled out of bed, but I'm feeling irritated.

i started the other thread since I disagreed with an aspect of Stef's theory.  It seemed to me that (and I may be wrong) he felt that attractive women in general had less moral integrity, which i felt was unfair since there is no real link between physical attractiveness and personality traits.

But even still, i can attest to a good part of Stef's theory.  I'm currently talking to a woman in real life who isn't conventionally attractive, if that makes sense, but (to me) has a nice personality and moral virtue.  I think personality trumps all in the end, though having someone to whom there is a physical attraction is nice.

Stef hasn't said that there's a causal link.

In my experience, if a woman's beautiful, it's like she has the relationship equivalent of a $10 million trust fund that she can continue taking money from until she gets into her mid-30s. It doesn't engender responsibility in relationships.

A nice personality and moral virtue? Can you tell me more about this? Have you told her about FDR? How do you feel when you think about introducing this resource to her?

I am, by the way, so TOTALLY the wrong person to argue this point, so I can understand why I'm not very effective in this instance.

The problem with beautiful women is that they have power over something they didn't achieve. Try to see the world through their eyes. At first, you're gonna be surprised why they're praising you for something you didn't earn (your beauty). It's rather awkward in the beginning, but as it keeps going on and on, you start to convince yourself that maybe you are virtious for your beauty, and your ego starts escalating. You realize that this gives you power and that you have monopoly over ugly chicks, no matter how smart or virtious they are. So that essentially corrupts you because you realize that there's no need to be virtious. You already have tons of guys competing for you, and you can be a total bitch and get away with it. And of course you should, because deep down you still hate the fact that they don't like you for your personality, and those guys surely deserve being treated like shit, and this is your revenge. But now it's too late for you to develop a personality, because you're too caught up in a slave scenario, where you love being the victim and proving guys to be pigs.

I think it's true that attractive people in general might have more confidence since people would warm to them because of their looks, or be praised of it also.

but I don't think it's right to dislike or feel envious of attractive people.

I feel it's more indicative of the values of society more so than attractive people per se.  I think in Western society, concepts such as beauty or attractiveness are more highly emphasized.  The consumerist nature of our societies, in addition to media influences, probably add to this.  I think this is one reason for women in Western society being judged more on their looks, and often having low self-esteem for thinking they aren't as physically attractive as they could be.  I'm not a psychologist, but to me this is a poor base for self-esteem, since a person has more traits of their being than their looks.

Well, better appearance doesn't necessarily mean greater confidence. Because, as I mentioned above, most pretty chicks feel depressed because they're not loved for their personality, and because they have been too crippled to really expand. They don't have any self-confidence left, they only create the illusion of one. But of course, that does in no way mean that less attractive chicks are automatically virtuous, especially if they believe that being attractive is a virtue and try hard to be sexy.

Spratzaman:

Well, better appearance doesn't necessarily mean greater confidence. Because, as I mentioned above, most pretty chicks feel depressed because they're not loved for their personality, and because they have been too crippled to really expand. They don't have any self-confidence left, they only create the illusion of one. But of course, that does in no way mean that less attractive chicks are automatically virtuous, especially if they believe that being attractive is a virtue and try hard to be sexy.

I can attest to the lower confidence.  I've had large breasts since I hit puberty at 11.  Ever since then I've made a great effort to hide them by slouching or wearing baggy clothes.  Growing up I never knew if guys wanted to talk to me because of my chest or because what I was saying was interesting.  I think that negative attention was certainly a factor in my low self esteem.

JC, have you tried to slow down in the moment and trace any thoughts you might have had, no matter how fleeting, to help you figure out why you are reacting this way?  I can tell you from experience that self-deprecation doesn't help you figure anything out; except maybe WHY you are self-deprecating...