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Latest post 08-22-2008 1:32 PM by Mr Bojangles. 18 replies.
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  • 08-12-2008 10:15 PM

    Broken Heart [U] 1124-1125: Attacking Mothers and Attacking Parents - A Conference

  • 08-13-2008 3:33 AM In reply to

    • Charlotte
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on 10-14-2007
    • Moscow, Russian Federation
    • Posts 1,119
    • Philosopher King

    Re: 1124-1125: Attacking Mothers and Attacking Parents - A Conference

    I began listening to 1125 just this morning. It got me really thinking about something that happened when I was 7 - the day my grandparents and my mother stopped beating me. It was - I think partially - because I fought back. Flailing, kicking, punching, slapping, pulling hair... and it took the three of them to hold me down while my grandmother beat me. But after that... no more hitting.

    I used to think of it as a victory - getting them not to hurt me any more. But it wasn't any victory, because I still feared being beaten, and in reality all my grandparents and mother did was try another, more successful tack: emotional abuse and threats (and sometimes more than threats) of abandonment. Which hurt worse, I must say, than any beating.

    Stef mentions a child calculating probabilities. If his parents are 95% likely to stop beating him if he shows that he has a real capacity and desire to hurt them if they hurt him, will he show them that capacity? Probably not. Because even if his parents stop beating him, he knows what kind of evil people they are. He must know - even subconsciously - that nothing can make the situation right. Nothing can make it good. Nothing can make it healthy. They are still sick people and will get back at him via another avenue. Hence, limpness as a defense. Anti-exceptionalism. Blending into the woodwork.

    Given that, I wonder still why I fought. Fought mother until I was exhausted. The resistance - I even said it to myself then - was always token. I would scream at her, and physically intimidate her (always in retaliation to her doing the same to me), but I would not strike her. I called social services to get myself removed from the house, but thought better of it and retracted my allegations. (Better the devil you know.) Though I did fight, it was always for a short while, and she always "won." I used to feel so embarrassed and hurt and frustrated and upset after she'd use the "FUCK OFF!" defense and stop speaking to me. Was it that embarrassment that kept me fighting? I don't know. I don't think so.

    I'd be interested to see/hear other people's reactions to these podcasts.

    We have reached the open sea, with some charts, and the firmament.

    http://montaignesheiress.wordpress.com/

    Voevoda Bolshoia - my travels in Russia.

    http://www.voevodabolshoia.com/

  • 08-13-2008 5:21 AM In reply to

    • dittotl
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on 11-26-2007
    • Richmond, VA
    • Posts 149
    • Diamond Donator

    Re: 1124-1125: Attacking Mothers and Attacking Parents - A Conference

        All i can say is wow, and that this explains why i would have constant nightmares when i was young and why i thought i saw a skeleton standing over my crib when i was little. perhaps this is a later dream but i distinctly remember being in my cribe afraid of the dark even with the night light when i pulled down the covers to climb out of bed to attempt switch on the light. I remember seeing a skull like figure standing in front of the night light and immediately I crawl back under the covers and hide there instead of turning on the light. Alot of the violence my parents inflicted did make me feel if i didnt stop i might be killed or (beaten to a pulp is more like it). The day i fought back at 14 i though i might be suffocated and die so i went limp.

         Then we add the years of my parents beating it into to me that i was bad wrong or evil. This onslaught of negative reinforcement made me feel like they were justified in their abuse. Then i mature into a teenager and am pleading for death so that i no longer have to be evil or bad anymore to set the world right, i should just not exist. Finally i become the evil i am accused of being  and simultaneously i want to be self destructive so i can be moral by killing myself since i'm bad. And for crying out loud all of this starts at day one, ground zero, of my first few years of life. It is no wonder that i have become and felt so violent both inwardly and outwardly, it is no wonder i doubt myself and my abilities or that i go through long periods of depression. it is no wonder i found nihilism so appealing to me as well as self destructive women.  Years of abuse made me fear my death if i did not submit to the FOO's FUBAR code of "ethics"(using this term as loosly as you can imagine).

          Also after you submit to thier irrational views after being beaten down for years you start to welcome the death you feared when you were younger. never mind that its not you who is bad but the maniacal people who were suppose to be raising you. your not a child to those people your a slave your a commodity a thing to be broken in and tammed so you'll behave and do what they want you to do, they dont see you at all. Your like a expensive android that theyve purchased and now they have to reprogram you to follow thier wishes. Actually a more apt example is a happy fun loving puppy who over years of abuse they have turned into an attack dog to be thrown in dog fights for money. There is so much covered here that is shining a huge spotlight on my past illuminating the the foggy shadows.  (I think the blindfold is starting to tear) thanx again stef for all the work and effort you put into FDR.Big Smile

     

    You have to let it all go... fear, doubt, and disbelief free your mind..

  • 08-13-2008 10:41 PM In reply to

    Re: 1124-1125: Attacking Mothers and Attacking Parents - A Conference

    The article in 1124 describes my mother. I am stunned. The description matches perfectly.The two times when she left me for a night, in one case with strangers and in the other case with my sister I honestly thought she would never come back again and these are key-memories now. Trauma moments I would say. If my sister wouldn't have raised me 50 percent of the time I probably would be another version of her now. I have to re-listen it and get all the information. Did you mention the web page you got this article from? If not, would you mind posting it?

    1125. Yes. I remember saying to my therapist that I was sure as a kid of seven or eight that my father would kill me when he would get too mad. I have one memory with him raising his hand threatening me and a thought that was rushing through my mind: Be careful, one more move and he will kill you. I was witness when he  throw our dog down the staircase on day, I am surprised that he survived.

    My mother was the dragon. I even dreamt about her as a dragon. I always was in fear of death. Her leaving was equivalent to me being in danger of dying because I didn't know if she would come back. I had this fear of death all my life. I repressed it most of the times and sometimes I tried to talk about it with people but nobody could understand me. They said: Well, you die someday, everybody dies, that's the way it is. Nobody was able comfort me anytime when I tried to explain this fear. I haven't had that for while. It stopped at some point in 2007 but I know it was my deepest fear for a long, long time.....and another door just opened...thank you!

     

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  • 08-14-2008 1:06 AM In reply to

    • Willy
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-10-2006
    • Missouri
    • Posts 49

    Re: 1124-1125: Attacking Mothers and Attacking Parents - A Conference

    This brought back a dream I remember having when I was a very small child. I remember dreaming of being alone in my house looking for my parents but my parents were gone I would search everywhere for them. I remember in the dream that there was a demonic voice in the house telling me to "get out". I would run screaming for help and screaming for my parents to help me but they never came. I can not remember exactly how old I was when I had this dream but the dream took place when I was 3 to 7 years old.

    Hola
  • 08-14-2008 7:46 AM In reply to

    Re: 1124-1125: Attacking Mothers and Attacking Parents - A Conference

    Do you know why you had this dream?


    All Free! - Audio, PDF. Print starting @ $9.99+
    Freedomain Radio Needs Your Support! Easily send podcasts, videos, books and feeds to your friends with FDR Referrals.

     


     

  • 08-14-2008 9:04 AM In reply to

    • Victor
    • Top 75 Contributor
    • Joined on 01-11-2008
    • Dominican Republic
    • Posts 401
    • Silver Donator

    Re: 1124-1125: Attacking Mothers and Attacking Parents - A Conference

     This is a very revealing topic. If this is the way it goes, then it could explain a lot about politics and the subjugation of people to implicit or tacit violence.

    I recently got rid of my fear of the dark. THe way I've done it is by remembering a beating everytime I find myself in the dark alone. At first I used to feel sorry for myself at that age, and now I just switch the fear to my parents and it gets me sleeping like a baby. When I reveal the truth, my fears become rational and manageable.

    I also remember the self-destructive behavior this threat causes. My sister and I were born away from my father in a howse where my mother had many sisters who treated us well. But when we moved in with my father, and my mother was alone in the house to do away with us as she felt, we began to be beaten regularily. My sister became agresive towards my parents and I became agresive towards other kids.

    My parents had to work hard on my sister to get her to stand down. She was three or four years old at the time. I remember that then she turned towards herself. She would drop down to the ground and scratch her face and neck, protesting the control my father wanted to impose on her. She cried to my mother for help, but then collapsed and attacked herself when my mother took sides with my father. I remember this as horrifying because it made me very afraid as well. From then on I began to separate from my mother.

    My father and mother also treated my sister as if she was crazy and took her to a doctor back then. She found ways to fight back, doing things like painting the walls with crayolla or damaging stuff around the house to get back at them. She was later tamed and became an allied to them, even against me.

    I also remember that I once threatened my parents with suicide. The way I handled my situation was by detaching from them. I sort of parented myself and never talked to them exept the esential. But they threatened once to separate me from some friends I had and I said I would take my life if they did. This got me a pass for a couple of years of no beatings. I remember I was confused. I now think it was because I saw as a contradiction when they would be willing to kill me if I did not follow them, but they would back down if I was willing to kill myself.

    My mother defenitively would kill me if I ever tried to defend myself. She once gave me a beating whith the blades of two knives. That time she even took a couple of stabbing swings at me and I was able to doge. She was certainly making a point there.

    I won't let go of past me, but rather invite him to chill at my birthday.

  • 08-14-2008 4:34 PM In reply to

    • Willy
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-10-2006
    • Missouri
    • Posts 49

    Re: 1124-1125: Attacking Mothers and Attacking Parents - A Conference

    My mother was in an abusive relationship with my father. My father was a drug addict and extremely physically abusive to my mother. I remember watching my father beat my mother to a bloody pulp. My mother believed that me and the my sister's were the cause of her abusive relationship with my father because she was in this abusive relationship because she felt she could not leave due to her three kids. My mother never told me or my sisters this but I know this is what she felt. I believe the dream was caused because I felt my mother wanted to get rid of me. My mother felt I was a burden on her and hated me for making her be trapped with my father.

    Hola
  • 08-14-2008 5:46 PM In reply to

    • Charlotte
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on 10-14-2007
    • Moscow, Russian Federation
    • Posts 1,119
    • Philosopher King

    Re: 1124-1125: Attacking Mothers and Attacking Parents - A Conference

    Willy:

    My mother felt I was a burden on her and hated me for making her be trapped with my father.

    Do you believe now that you were the cause of her being "trapped" with your father?

    We have reached the open sea, with some charts, and the firmament.

    http://montaignesheiress.wordpress.com/

    Voevoda Bolshoia - my travels in Russia.

    http://www.voevodabolshoia.com/

  • 08-15-2008 8:19 AM In reply to

    • eye2i2
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on 10-28-2007
    • southeastern north america
    • Posts 186

    Re: 1124-1125: Attacking Mothers and Attacking Parents - A Conference

    I have to re-listen it and get all the information. Did you mention the web page you got this article from? If not, would you mind posting it?

    Apologies up front if I'm confusing my references, but if this is the deMause article you might check this source: The Psychology and Neurobiology of Violence

    ** added **

    The Institute for Psychohistory

    Lloyd deMause, psychohistorian (bio)

    The Emperor has no clothes!!
    The Empirically minded has no "Emperor"!!
    There is No Emperor!
    (there are only individuals)

  • 08-15-2008 9:30 AM In reply to

    Re: 1124-1125: Attacking Mothers and Attacking Parents - A Conference

    eye2i2:
    but if this is the Demause article you might check this source: The Psychology and Neurobiology of Violence

    Thanks!Smile I already gave up on it. I couldn't find it.

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  • 08-15-2008 5:32 PM In reply to

    • Willy
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-10-2006
    • Missouri
    • Posts 49

    Re: 1124-1125: Attacking Mothers and Attacking Parents - A Conference

    OH no, but that was what I thought when I was a child.

     

     

    Hola
  • 08-20-2008 9:37 PM In reply to

    Re: 1124-1125: Attacking Mothers and Attacking Parents - A Conference

    This post has been removed by the author.

  • 08-20-2008 9:58 PM In reply to

    Re: 1124-1125: Attacking Mothers and Attacking Parents - A Conference

    avagdu:
    After i bit people a few times at school my father took me to the local jail for a tour with police men

    This so cruel. Your father must have a stone where a heart belongs Left Hug

    I could be wrong but I read a bit of cynicism out of it...are you aware of it?

     

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  • 08-20-2008 10:26 PM In reply to

    Re: 1124-1125: Attacking Mothers and Attacking Parents - A Conference

    This post has been removed by the author.

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