Nedsferatu. Thank you for the thoughtful reply. FDR is pre and post with me as well. I must admit, I am treading lightly when it comes to RTR because I am in a difficult relationship phase with my wife. I need some more time to dig into it, but the rational approach and the piercing quality of using curiosity as means to clarify matters in relationships has come clear to me through some of the podcasts. Extreme honesty is something I share with a couple of very, very close friends and one family member. I have a decent and caring social network of the most wonderful people, but the size is around five people. Strangely, I find that my independent and rational approach to things has created a difficulty for my wife and I. Basically, I ask for reasons and goals that motivate actions which turns into accusations of forcing her to do something which she isn't comfortable. In her words, "owning it" or "taking responsibility" for words or actions is the same as saying f&%$ you. So, you might imagine that this has been difficult for me. I have found that the people around me who are rational go to great lengths to protect that perspective (including myself) because I am in the teaching and coaching field. That is not the hotbed of rationality as I am sure you are aware...
I am very sorry to hear about difficulties in your marriage. I can imagine how heartbreaking interactions like those can be 
. If I can make a suggestion, I would highly recommend starting a thread on this matter. There is so much love and experience in this community; I can't imagine it being anything but a clarifying experience that will renew your enthusiasm for communication in your marriage.
Briefly, have you considered that reasons and goals are secondary to driving actions and words. What do you think about values driving all of the above. Does this give more perspective on what your wife's values are that would drive her response? Something to think about; i hope you decide to dive into this on a new thread. I feel this is especially important given your comments about how it's affecting your child and your parenting.
subdivisionman:
Nedsferatu, I swear that I am always in the info gathering phase. I am taking the test spin without using the term anarchy. I work with young teenagers so the term scares the shoes off adults (with pre-conceived fear notions) and it energizes a negative side to my students. I basically have changed the terminology in my professional life to encourage individual thought and responsibility rather than groupthink, er, teamwork, etc. In my daily life with family I am fully encouraging individual thought and rationality. I don't sense the need to press on political issues given that interpersonal issues are difficult enough in my family. The conflict resolution qualities of post-fdr thinking have been a boost. When my children are lucid we can talk about what our interests are, what our actions create, and how we can decide to use non-hostile communication to achieve our goals. This is not easy with children under the age of 10, especially when the mrs. is anti-take responsibility.... These are difficult waters, but necessary to navigate given their importance.
You know teenagers better than I do but I would imagine that they would respond very positively to terms like: consistancy, rationality, personal preference, rational consequences, and ideas like anti-hypocrisy. I remember consistancy and order were very comforting to me as a teenager.
I am very curious to hear more about your thoughts on pre and post fdr and rtr. What is it now that grabs your interests? How do you manage dealing with people in a "pre-fdr" style vs. a "post-fdr" style? Are you, similar to me, looking at people and getting a sense of them, and crafting your communication to fit what they can handle? If so, does this create an uncomfortable sense of condescension? I am still trying to sort that kind of stuff out. I am also interested, what was it that brought you to the other side? You referred to reading rand and foregoing church, but is there more to your motivation to take philosophy into daily life? Clearly, I enjoy the interactions! All the best.
Currently I am most interested in relationship with my girlfriend. We are using RTR to great success and we are helping each other with dealing with our families. The level of intimacy kind of blows my mind; she is my number one priority. The issues with the FOO are important to us. I have found that accepting the truth about my family and childhood to be very difficult for me; she has been my witness to my experiences and I really have a hard time expressing how much that means to me. I am in a selfish phase where my personal relationships are most important to me and I feel like acting in a happy rational fashion is my strength at the moment rather than explicitly "getting the word out". My close friends are also important to me and I enjoy talking with them at a very intimate level as well.
Speaking with someone at their level or on their wavelength is of particular interest to me. If i feel I am being condescending I change the level I am speaking with them at or I ask them if they are experiencing me as condescending. I think it's a matter of self-trust and confidence on the one hand, but also a matter of genuine interest in their comprehension and in the value they are receiving that is the most powerful tool.
As far as my journey to rationality, there were a few steps I had taken before finding FDR. I was an engineering student and had read Rand which was my first introductions to rationality actually working as a lifestyle (rather than being a paradisical dream). It was actually through prayer (what I now realize was intense meditation) that I began to understand that the origin and existance of god is in our minds. I stopped going to church and relaxed enough to allow myself to pursue these new ideas. As I was searching for everything I could get my hands on, I found freedomain radio in the iTunes podcast directory. I listened to podcasts and joined the forum when it was started a couple months later. FDR has been very important to my growth and happiness.
My motivation, I think from the beginning, has been this intuitive understanding that reason equals virtue equals happiness even when those steps towards reason are very stressful. From the beginning to I think it was intuitive to me that happiness in life came from applying reason to choices in life. It was clear that understanding that there is no god and still going to church would probably be MORE painful and that the release and growth comes through living and action, not through thought and intellectualizations.
I would love to about hear your experiences and motivations towards the living rationality! It sounds like you are no stranger to these ideas. Please share you story!
Currently I am most interested in relationship with my girlfriend. We are using RTR to great success and we are helping each other with dealing with our families. The level of intimacy kind of blows my mind; she is my number one priority. The issues with the FOO are important to us. I have found that accepting the truth about my family and childhood to be very difficult for me; she has been my witness to my experiences and I really have a hard time expressing how much that means to me. I am in a selfish phase where my personal relationships are most important to me and I feel like acting in a happy rational fashion is my strength at the moment rather than explicitly "getting the word out". My close friends are also important to me and I enjoy talking with them at a very intimate level as well.
Sounds like your girlfriend is thoughtful and understanding.
Speaking with someone at their level or on their wavelength is of particular interest to me. If i feel I am being condescending I change the level I am speaking with them at or I ask them if they are experiencing me as condescending. I think it's a matter of self-trust and confidence on the one hand, but also a matter of genuine interest in their comprehension and in the value they are receiving that is the most powerful tool.
Yes! This is an area that matters so much. The response of the listener and a genuine concern for the communication is critical in teaching and coaching. Without adjusting to a level of communication that students can operate with, the effort is not worth the result. I have found, however, that I have to consciously adjust my conversational level when talking with adults after a 14hr day of kids... This is where I find a challenge.
As far as my journey to rationality, there were a few steps I had taken before finding FDR. I was an engineering student and had read Rand which was my first introductions to rationality actually working as a lifestyle (rather than being a paradisical dream). It was actually through prayer (what I now realize was intense meditation) that I began to understand that the origin and existance of god is in our minds. I stopped going to church and relaxed enough to allow myself to pursue these new ideas. As I was searching for everything I could get my hands on, I found freedomain radio in the iTunes podcast directory. I listened to podcasts and joined the forum when it was started a couple months later. FDR has been very important to my growth and happiness.
My motivation, I think from the beginning, has been this intuitive understanding that reason equals virtue equals happiness even when those steps towards reason are very stressful. From the beginning to I think it was intuitive to me that happiness in life came from applying reason to choices in life. It was clear that understanding that there is no god and still going to church would probably be MORE painful and that the release and growth comes through living and action, not through thought and intellectualizations.
Thank you for sharing the answers to my questions, Nedsfaratu.
I would love to about hear your experiences and motivations towards the living rationality! It sounds like you are no stranger to these ideas. Please share you story!
Thank you again. I'll put words to living rationality. I have been struggling with the marriage for some time now. Regardless of what I had said and done, she basically was intent on subjugating everything in her life below her career. This on the heels of pressing to have children before I wanted. Naturally, she works late most nights, most weekends, travels routinely, and has barely anything left for the rest of the family. This leaves me in the situation where I am scrambling to be father of the year while pursuing my own career. I would go round and round with her about her decision to spend very little time with our family. She would temporarily acquiesce and then the facade would wear off and we began to perceive ourselves as an interruption to what was important to her. This situation would cycle and cycle. I began to realize that I was terribly unhappy so I pursued different avenues to make attempts to save my self-esteem (which was completely eroded). I took a summer job that was in management at a prestigious employer...didn't work. Began my master's degree.....didn't work. But, during my master's program I suddenly began to recognize that the situation was simple, I allowed myself to be taken advantage of without explaining my honest feelings about what was happening. That moment I began to use the word "no." I stopped attempting to smooth things at the expense of my perspective/feelings. The relationship was my motivation for finding my own way, and that took me to a book by Don Miguel Ruiz called "the four agreements." They are: 1. be impeccable with your word (honesty) 2.nothing is personal (be rational).3. Never assume (be curious, clarify). 4. Do your best (instead of trying to be perfect.) The stories that go with this book are different than the typical state/church serving mantras and anecdotes. I think Ruiz believes in god, but he doesn't go into it. When reading this book and Ayn Rand I realized that my experience would be crafted by me. I no longer allowed my wife to "handle" my happiness and I began rebuilding it. I came across fdr while looking at Rand. Well, the rational approach has afforded me much more level headedness and better parenting. My wife? There are times when she is in the moment but they are especially rare. We do not discuss these types of things, I believe she is afraid of what Stefan says, is the truth that she knows deep down. This used to be very frustrating for me and now I find it curiously amusing from the caring perspective. So in a nutshell? Once I began to view things from the rational perspective, my difficult marriage hurt less. My self-respect and self-esteem began to hold water again. Now, I am more at peace regardless what happens in the marriage, and my parenting is more consistent and well rounded.
I hope this helps explain my drive to understand. I am not done and right now I am taking in RTR for the second time. I have tried it in a couple of spots but I see that I have a long way to go. About what happens next, that will be interesting.
Nedsferatu, I wonder if there are some similar experiences in your background too? All the best.