Freedomain Radio

Hey all,

How many people have you "converted" to anarchism?

I'm quite interested in hearing how other people are doing in that department.

And if anyone has an extremely high number, I'd be interested in hearing about the techniques :)

Thanks,

J

 

I think the much more interesting question is, have you gotten anyone seriously interested in thinking and self-examination.

The consequence of that process, as far as we know now, is anarchism, but who knows, maybe there's someone out there with an insight we've all missed.

The point is, it's not the conclusions we should be interested in, but the process. Inspire people to introspect, and fire up their innate desire to think rationally, and who knows what's possible...

 

Jesse Munson:

Hey all,

How many people have you "converted" to anarchism?

I'm quite interested in hearing how other people are doing in that department.

And if anyone has an extremely high number, I'd be interested in hearing about the techniques :)

Thanks,

J

Two people.  Both were due to the luck of finding someone basically open to individualism and with anti-statist tendencies.  Not that it's a great number, but my advice would be 1. focus on people who are able and willing to absorb the ideas and 2. as someone suggested to Stef a while back, be a hot asian girl.   

I converted my Uncle to Anarcho-Capitalism last week.  I introduced it to him as "something I'm not wholly sold on yet," but he was very, very eager to buy it.  Like Stef did, he works in the computer software business.  Can we label those professionals as targets of opportunity?  ;-)

In even more uplifting news, I saved my little(st) brother's mind yesterday.  I am the oldest of four in a very Catholic family, and I wasn't able to shake through the lies, guilt, and confusion, until I was 19.  Before yesterday, I had managed to have rational(ish) conversations with all of my family except for Benjamin, the youngest.  He is extremely sensitive about lies and truth, and I want to ease him into the conversion without him losing that priority and without destroying my, for the most part, functional family.

Anyway, an opportunity presented itself yesterday when he said something about Adam and Eve.  I asked him if he believed that they were real, and he said that he had never thought about it before.  After I made fun of the legend for a bit, he volunteered that it seemed like a rather silly story.  We worked our way chronologically through the bible (Noah, Tower of Babel, Jericho, etc) via the Socratic method, and he left convinced that it is stupid to believe things without a reason.

I feel so awesome right now.

Greg Gauthier:

The point is, it's not the conclusions we should be interested in, but the process. Inspire people to introspect, and fire up their innate desire to think rationally, and who knows what's possible...

Hi Greg,

Yes, clearly you're right.  Getting people interested in self-examination is the goal.

But, as you also know, it's so hard to say "I've gotten 3 people to use self-examination.", because it's hard to gauge.  I'm using Anarcho Capitalism as a water mark, however imperfect and conclusion oriented. 

And don't you think if someone can legitimately call themselves anarcho-capitalists, you have already got them to examine their reality and their relationship with violent propaganda and themselves and their society.

I say, in the absence of objective measures for "self-examination" or "love of philsophy" we can and should use markers such as "has become an athest" and "has rejected statism" and "understands the nature of free exchange".  I mean, if we get someone to understand these things, we have taught someone at least some self-examination.  Right? 

So, I'm still very interested in the numbers. 

I'm working with a model that kicks out about thirty thousand people who have converted to or are in the process of exploring anarchism as a result of Freedomain Radio...

The actual number could be half that, of course, but I doubt it is much more than that... 

Stefan Molyneux:

I'm working with a model that kicks out about thirty thousand people who have converted to or are in the process of exploring anarchism as a result of Freedomain Radio...

The actual number could be half that, of course, but I doubt it is much more than that... 

 30,000?  Not bad young grasshopper. You must have listened to alot of of FDR! 

Vichy:

Jesse Munson:

Hey all,

How many people have you "converted" to anarchism?

I'm quite interested in hearing how other people are doing in that department.

And if anyone has an extremely high number, I'd be interested in hearing about the techniques :)

Thanks,

J

Two people.  Both were due to the luck of finding someone basically open to individualism and with anti-statist tendencies.  Not that it's a great number, but my advice would be 1. focus on people who are able and willing to absorb the ideas and 2. as someone suggested to Stef a while back, be a hot asian girl.   

Hmm, I think I've got it backwards... I'm focusing on hot asian girls and I'm someone who is able and willing to absorb the ideas... 

Oh noez, you are a traitor to the movement!
 

Greg Gauthier:

I think the much more interesting question is, have you gotten anyone seriously interested in thinking and self-examination.

The consequence of that process, as far as we know now, is anarchism, but who knows, maybe there's someone out there with an insight we've all missed.

The point is, it's not the conclusions we should be interested in, but the process. Inspire people to introspect, and fire up their innate desire to think rationally, and who knows what's possible...

 

I think Greg is on the right track here.  'I' don't convert anyone to anything.  I may give them information that they did not have before so they can add it to what they already have learned, but it's up to them and their thinking that is what makes any 'conversion.'  To really think that 'I' converted someone would really be pretty arrogant of me.  It's all really about self-education.

Dtomboy:

Greg Gauthier:

I think the much more interesting question is, have you gotten anyone seriously interested in thinking and self-examination.

The consequence of that process, as far as we know now, is anarchism, but who knows, maybe there's someone out there with an insight we've all missed.

The point is, it's not the conclusions we should be interested in, but the process. Inspire people to introspect, and fire up their innate desire to think rationally, and who knows what's possible...

 

I think Greg is on the right track here.  'I' don't convert anyone to anything.  I may give them information that they did not have before so they can add it to what they already have learned, but it's up to them and their thinking that is what makes any 'conversion.'  To really think that 'I' converted someone would really be pretty arrogant of me.  It's all really about self-education.

 

 

Yes, perhaps the question is a bit one-dimentional.  And, yes, clearly, having the person truly understand from the inside is best. 

But do you think that "firing up an innate desire to think" could be considered a real success if it ended in them supporting violence against me?

I'd say no, that's why I short-cutted the question and used the loaded phrase "convereted to market anarchy".  I think it's a totally valid benchmark.  For us to say otherwise would be to be dishonest to ourselves.  Don't you think?

I mean, if we can't judge others conclusions validily, we can't judge their processes validly either.  A valid process begets a valid conclusion.  One begets the other, as far as we know, right?

But, I'd be happy to be shown how this is wrong.

 

 

Greg Gauthier:

I think the much more interesting question is, have you gotten anyone seriously interested in thinking and self-examination.

The consequence of that process, as far as we know now, is anarchism, but who knows, maybe there's someone out there with an insight we've all missed.

The point is, it's not the conclusions we should be interested in, but the process. Inspire people to introspect, and fire up their innate desire to think rationally, and who knows what's possible...

 

I also have agree with this. My experience is that a lot of people seem to accept the arguments when it comes to anarchism, but they just wave it off as though it's some sort of interesting thought experiment with no real bearing on their lives. I've only ever got one person thinking about it to the extent that I would seriously consider them to be "converted".

Pseudonatural:

Greg Gauthier:

I think the much more interesting question is, have you gotten anyone seriously interested in thinking and self-examination.

The consequence of that process, as far as we know now, is anarchism, but who knows, maybe there's someone out there with an insight we've all missed.

The point is, it's not the conclusions we should be interested in, but the process. Inspire people to introspect, and fire up their innate desire to think rationally, and who knows what's possible...

 

I also have agree with this. My experience is that a lot of people seem to accept the arguments when it comes to anarchism, but they just wave it off as though it's some sort of interesting thought experiment with no real bearing on their lives. I've only ever got one person thinking about it to the extent that I would seriously consider them to be "converted".

 

I agree wholeheartedly. I've converted my cousins (though a lot of our ideas evolved at the same time), but the other people I've discussed it with brush it off as "just philosophy". As if it isn't a relevant ideology....This is one of the bigger problems in converting people.

Anarcho-capitalism, only one, and not so much my direct doing.

However, I've had a lot of success converting people to "vanilla libertarianism" (becoming Ron Paul supporters, etc). Some who I would say weren't even neccesarily predisposed to such. I think the current number is at about 8ish. Some are still a little skeptical about more "extreme" things, but I do believe its a progression. I went from republican to an-cap in just a few months, mostly thanks to Free Talk Live, but many others do indeed move slower. I think a lot of us around here are the type who, when shown a superior, logical, idea, have little resistance to change. Unfortunately, not everyone is the same.

I think one of the biggest keys to my success is that I'm very consistent and firm in my convictions, while also being respectful and understanding, and attempting to be positive, on top of that. Its indeed hard (I'm definitely in the "cynical OMGOMG i r hate u gov!" stage right now, but its fading), but worth the effort.

Two friends that I have sent EA to have since responded that they are proud to call themselves anarchists after having read it but I, like others on this thread think that seems too fast. I have been slowly introducing more philosophical ideas and directing them to the intro series and such.(These guys were fairly antigovernment already) I often talk about these issues with my cousin and he agrees with my arguments but I can't seem to get him to actually read anything or move forward in his thinking. He has a 9 month pregnant girlfriend who I don't think is of the highest charachter or soundest mind so my focus on him (and her when I've an opportunity to talk to her) is geared toward family topics. Amazingly, I have been able to "convert" my mother to atheism. This is truly an acheivement considering the fact that she has always been sort of a new age mystic type (crystals, tarot cards, oija boards and shit). It has taken me several months of rtr type engagement to fully reach her. She has also acknowledged and apologized for her neglect of me as a child as well as the introduction of my lousy step dad into my life (he has passed away). At first she was very defensive and tried to minimize my feelings but I kept being open and vulnerable and prodding her on her definition of love. I have also questioned her about the nature of her relationships and her ability to evaluate charachter and she has been able to openly admit her so called friends corruption. As far as anarchism goes she was already a libertarian (minarchist) so bringing her around on that isue shouldn't be too much of a stretch (she does'nt vote and isn't interested in politics anyway). I have sent my dad EA and other materials but he hasn't read any of it as yet. I'm not expecting too much from him because he has never made an effort to see me since I was a kid. Last year I was in a social science course and we were assigned a group project in which we were to create an ideal society. Naturally I pushed for an an-cap model and was able to convince the 3 other members of my group that this was the ideal. When it came time to present our project I laid out the power point to the class, relying heavily on the dro model. There were many skeptical questions after my speech (mostly from the professor) but I feel I was able to give strong reponses. In fact after the presentation 2 guys from another team congratulated me and said they preferred our society to theirs (their presentation was a minarchist model). I don't know if that had any lasting effect but it sure felt good to speak the truth to a group of people (despite my fear of public speaking).