Freedomain Radio

If valuing looks highly in a relationship is bad, then surely the following points must come into play:

- There is no known correlation between moral nature and levels of physical attractiveness.

- We also don't know what causes personality.  If personality is innate, then someone can easily be born attractive and a good person

- If attractive women do display more corrupt characters, then perhaps societal values and conditioning contribute to this, despite any inherent badness on their part.  Because of woman is attractive, it might make persons make more allowances to her and develop such tendencies.

 If valuing looks highly in a relationship is bad

I agree that basing who you like around looks cannot be something you measure morally as bone structure and skin and body composition isn't chosen.

I'm not sure what you mean by personality, i usually think that if someone is willing to try to understand you and others, then they're personality is just fine as they are open for feelings.  Could you elaborate?

is it too obvious to say that it's a good thing to be curious about all new people? if you are attracted to someone's looks, it's ok to be curious about their personality, the same as if you attracted to their art or they were already a friend of someone you respect. There are certainly ugly people in beautiful bodies as there are beautiful people in beautiful bodies. I think most proposed correlations between the two are do more harm than help when experiencing new people and discovering their maturity and intelligence.

It's not that valuing looks so highly in a relationship is just "bad" (whatever that exactly means) - it's just that it ends up leading to constant dishonesty. If I were only attracted to Christina because of her looks, I would not be able to honestly tell her that I love her, but rather that I love her looks, or her skin, or her body. Similarly, I would also have to tell her -- to be honest -- that I find her looks valuable, which means that if I find someone better looking, I will leave her for that person, and also that I find her far less attractive when she is pregnant, and also that I will leave her for someone more attractive when time and age begin to steal her looks.

Could a "relationship" be sustained with such honesty?

yurface:

 If valuing looks highly in a relationship is bad

I agree that basing who you like around looks cannot be something you measure morally as bone structure and skin and body composition isn't chosen.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by personality, i usually think that if someone is willing to try to understand you and others, then they're personality is just fine as they are open for feelings.  Could you elaborate?

 

I mean personality in the standard definition, as in a person's unique and innate unseen characteristics.  

Stefan Molyneux:

It's not that valuing looks so highly in a relationship is just "bad" (whatever that exactly means) - it's just that it ends up leading to constant dishonesty. If I were only attracted to Christina because of her looks, I would not be able to honestly tell her that I love her, but rather that I love her looks, or her skin, or her body. Similarly, I would also have to tell her -- to be honest -- that I find her looks valuable, which means that if I find someone better looking, I will leave her for that person, and also that I find her far less attractive when she is pregnant, and also that I will leave her for someone more attractive when time and age begin to steal her looks.

Could a "relationship" be sustained with such honesty?

I would say in any case that dating (or being married to) a person wholly because of their looks is unhealthy.  I feel in a relationship one must respect one's partner for who they are, including her values, thoughts, feelings, emotions and attitudes.  a relationship also requires co-operation, so ascertaining a woman's personality and character is (i feel) vital to achieving such an end.  Getting what one wants from others requires understanding how that person thinks and what their attitudes are.  In general I could look at a woman think she's pretty, but I wouldn't really consider getting in a serious relationship with her without determining what kind of person she was.  In a relationship, I have to respect the person for who they are, or otherwise I doubt such a relationship could be viable.

And with regard to your point, I agree totally.  It would not be fair on one's partner since they'd wonder if you ever were dating her for her.

 It is when looks becomes the deciding factor (which happens a lot more that we care to admit) that the trap is set. When looks are overvalued, at the expense of moral values and virtues. people tend to excuse an rationalize all sorts of unaceptable , rude and plain cruel behaviours in the part of the object of their desire. The level of irrationalty and self delusion that I had witessed when these types of "relationship" end is incredible. How dare these seemingly innocent victims claim they were used, or abused in the relatiosnhip when they willingly traded looks for everything else. 

Also I would imagine it's inevitable that if a man chooses a woman largely for her looks, she will make him pay at some point, and for a long time, because no one really likes to be used...

It's not that valuing looks makes for a poor relationship, it's that valuing any one attribute of a person, in spite of the other attributes, is doomed to fail, since you'll have to contend with the other attributes for the duration of the relationship.

Looks in particular, can and will change with time. Obviously other attributes will change as well, so one might say that the vest attribute to value is stability...

People who take care of themselves with good hygiene, diet, and exercise tend to be more attractive.  Studies have also found good looking people are generally healthier, more successful, etc.  It's a rational desire to want someone attractive.

The problem is when you start turning a blind eye to other things you value, such as honesty, intelligence, etc.  Those relationships are doomed to fail.  But, to disregard or minimize the need for sexual attraction also sets you up for failure.

I've noticed that sometimes looks can tell me a lot about a person.
Mostly the face... the way one is looking at me, their body language...
I think all these things are like shortcuts to the soul. I mean, as soon as I saw Stef on YouTube, I already knew he was a positive and pleasant person. On the contrary, when I see a televangelist, I can see through their fake smiles, and I immediately feel anger. Maybe I'm just stupid, I don't know. 

- "If attractive women do display more corrupt characters,"

Did someone actually state this?

 Yes, that is very true and I had seen this happened (from the woman's perspective) some people here aluded to having a good diet, exercise and general taking care of yourselve can make you appear more attractive, while this is true, what I am referring to is the woman (or individual) that possesses above average looks and how their looks can attract people mainly for that reason. I think this level of physical attraction (particularly in women) is akin to someone in power (such a business leader) - power can corrupt an individual, especially when is granted just because of your mere existence.

I also think it's very easy to deceive own self into magnifying other "qualities" the beautiful person is bringing to the relationship once the attention has been reciprocated. I asked a friend (that I believed married this person mainly for her looks ) to name other qualities this person had, now in restrospect after the divorce, the only thing that was said it that the person was also funny, although at the time of the engagement the person was described as possesing all sorts of virtues.

Judge people as individuals. I have known plenty of above average or even beautiful people who arent corrupt.

If you're going to hold good looks against people, then maybe you should also say to stay away from people with below average looks because they tend to have lower self esteem due to their past treatment. Whether or not either of these are at all useful, I wouldn't even consider thinking in these terms except to explain behavior you have already observed, rather than make predictions of future behavior.

Carlos Morales:

- "If attractive women do display more corrupt characters,"

Did someone actually state this?

This is what was alluded to.  Stef stated in his podcast that attractive women he dated didn't seem like nice people to him.