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Latest post 07-15-2008 11:52 AM by AdamInSin. 3 replies.
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  • 07-15-2008 9:03 AM

    Define X

     

    So, I noticed something, or at least this idea has been developing in my head for awhile. Every word seems to have at least 2 meanings. Usually even more. I am wondering if this is intentional or what, I heard that eastern languages are much more specific and I was thinking that that might make philosophy easier but then again it does not look like they are doing very well. I mean learning Greek or Chinese might be fun, but having read things translated from Greek, it seems very difficult and probably pointless as that culture has not done much for a thousand of years. Thinking in different languages has always seemed attractive, but most languages other than english seems to be used by worse societies. Any Suggestions on a good language to learn? Specially a language that enhances one thinking abilities (other than latin, learning latin would be redundant)

    Like I could come up with like 3 or 4 definitions for truth. A couple of thousand for Love, millions for Virtue. 4 or 5 for selfish.  So two podcast Ideas.

    The Root of Ambiguity. Which would be why our language is like this. And if it is only specific to europeon language or just humans in general.

    and The Stef Lexicon, which could just be a book or terms or something so when Stef uses a word like Love everyone knows what he is talking about. I mean, Anarchists can't even agree on what the word Anarchy means, so how the hell are we going to make any progress if we have to teach people a new language to understand our concepts. Its frustrating every time I talk to someone about anything I have to go over a thousand definitions so whatever I am saying does not come off as this horrifying Nhilistic Corporate Satan Worshiping Evilness. i wish we could just communicate concepts instead of words, that might be better.

    These thoughts were really jumbled and I am sorry for that. If you understand this post please reply.

     

  • 07-15-2008 9:44 AM In reply to

    • thirdear
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-14-2008
    • Cleveland, Ohio
    • Posts 153

    Re: Define X

    One of my favorite articles is something called "TheMyth of the Rule of Law" by John Hasnas. In it he discusses the idea that "there is no such thing as a normatively neutral interpretation [of law]".

    I think this can also be readily applied to language in general. I think ambiguity in written and spoken language is a direct result of our ability to think in abstract terms. The more "ideas", "things" and/or "abstractions" there are, the more words there are and the more difficult communication tends to become.

    Now, I can't help but thinking about that movie, "The Gods Must Be Crazy" and the bushmen of the Kalahari.

    They never saw an "airplane", so it was just a big, loud bird. Never saw an "automobile", so it was just an animal one could sit in, which had round legs. Never saw a "white" man, so they were perceived as "Gods" and oddly enough, because the white man's language lacked the peculiar idiosyncrasy of the "clicking sound" of the language of the bushmen, the Gods "couldn't speak."

    And when the little bushman was jailed for killing a goat in order to stay alive in his quest to throw the "evil thing" (the coke bottle) off the edge of the earth ... "He never seen a wall in his life. He gonna die, for sure."

    Having never seen a wall, it's likely the bushmen don't have a word for "wall" in their language either.

    I also vaguely remember a quote, allegedly credited to Confucious that went something like, "The single greatest solution to the world's problems would be if every word had a specific meaning."

    Fortunately, we usually don't have these problems with mathematics. Its symbolism and syntax is clearly defined, as is the language of symbolic logic. A nice melding of these two might make for a highly definitive form of communication of even th most abstract thoughts and ideas, but I don't know for sure.

    I'm not even sure if my response helped or addressed anything you were looking for, but one thing I do know is that if anyone is going to be successful in a conversation or debate one must define his terms. Stef is pretty good about doing that himself and he's also really good when talking to others in getting them to define their terms in podcasts & convos when he says things like, "Okay, I get that, but I'm not quite sure what you mean by [X], can you elaborate or ..."

    “If you wish to converse with me,” said Voltaire, “define your terms.” How many a debate would have been deflated into a paragraph if the disputants had dared to define their terms! This is the alpha and omega of logic, the heart and soul of it, that every important term in serious discourse shall be subjected to the strictest scrutiny and definition. It is difficult, and ruthlessly tests the mind; but once done it is half of any task. Will Durant, The Story of Philosophy (Chapter 2, Aristotle and Greek Science, Part 3, The Foundation of Logic). -- Darrell Anderson, SimpleLiberty.org

    Hope this helps ...

    "His mind is not for rent to any god or government ..." -- N. Peart, P. DuBois

  • 07-15-2008 10:05 AM In reply to

    Re: Define X

    Like I could come up with like 3 or 4 definitions for truth.

    May I know those, please?

     

    "As a vivid, living value, the nation-state as an object of worship and a source of practical and moral solutions is as dead as King Tutankhamun."-- S. Molyneux

  • 07-15-2008 11:52 AM In reply to

    Re: Define X

    3 or 4 definitions of Truth, I had them in my head earlier, let me try to remember.

    Truth- Something that is 100% Certain

    Truth- Scientifically Proven Through Evidence and Reason

    Truth - Anything experienced

     

    These are not what I consider Truth, but i have found that people use that word like that. The first definition is the common mistake that something to be true must be 100% certain. Which Theists often use this distortion to their advantage to call Atheists hypocrites. The third is usually the "but I feel God" argument.  There was a fourth way it was used but I can't remember it now, these Ideas have been sitting in my head for a week or so, sorry.

     

    > Thridear, that is a cool quote, thanks for sharing it. Ayn Rand was the first person I really saw defining her terms, i think she was wrong on some of them, I really don't remember her "language" anymore. Have people noticed that every political/philisophical group seems to have its own Jargon? Like Try saying anything to a Left-Libertarian without scaring him, its like you have to learn to talk and think like them to explain your ideas to them. Little Tribalistic Bastards. I can speak conservative pretty well, I know a little bit of liberal, and I am fluent in Objectivist?

     

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