Freedomain Radio

This is from my blog, give it a read

To say that reality was created by an invisible man in the sky who you cannot see, hear, feel, smell, or sense in anyway is the exact same thing as saying you don't know where reality came from but you don't want to believe it is self sustaining. To say that ethics are outside of the realm of reality is to say that ethics are not real, but you want to believe in them any ways. Or to put this all in a simple thesis, to be a religious person is to be a cynic who still wants to hold on to beliefs.

Think of what the religious person is truly saying. Its the belief that mankind is a broken animal, reason and rationality are not valid, the senses are not always accurate, and that there is no inherent good in reality.  Now if we leave it at this then I think it would be safe to say that anyone who believes this is a cynic and nihilist. There is only one thing that religion adds on to this cynicism: That there is a magic man in the sky that makes it all better.  This magic man takes care of reality, and controls it, this magic man created ethics with the wave of his hand, and for this reason you don't need to rely on rationality and trying to understand reality.  In fact for the religious person thinking is really just game, that you can do if you feel like.

Ultimately the religious person is a person who thinks that reality has nothing to offer them so they look to non-reality (or things that aren't real) as the source of virtue in their life.

I have pointed out the problem with this belief before, mostly in my blogs The Nature of Emotion and Joy, Philosophy and the Fulfillment of Being but to put it simply, you can't invest emotional happiness into the existence of leprechauns and expect to get a return on that investment.  Because leprechauns do not exist.

If mankind is in fact a broken animal it is not because of his nature but because of his ideas. By teaching children that they need to invest emotional well being in to something that is non-existent you can expect nothing else but broken minds, and broken lives. As an anti-mystic and pantheist I believe it is an individuals relationship with truth and reality that determines his well being.  This being said, rationality is vital to the health of the individual, not just some game you can play if you feel like it.

You can either embrace reality, or you can reject it, but reality will always win, and you will always lose.

Most of religious morality, particularly judeo-christian morality, reduces to nihilism because the premises are all life-devalueing and self-devalueing. The earthly is devalued to point of obliteration. Man in general is portrayed in a very negative way. One is essentially characterized as "unholy" from birth. This life is viewed as essentially meaningless, only a transitory stage to eternity.

exactly, once you remove that magic man in the sky you are simply left with an exteremly pessimistic vew of life.

I could not disagree more - magical thinking is nihilism, it is founded on a hatred of and despair for the real...

Stefan Molyneux:

I could not disagree more - magical thinking is nihilism, it is founded on a hatred of and despair for the real...

isn't that what has been said? I know that was the point I was trying to make, and it seems brain police was doing the same.

oh when you wrote: "once you remove that magic man in the sky you are simply left with an exteremly pessimistic vew of life" I thought you meant that a loss of religion produced nihilism...

ah, I now see how that could be confusing

Well unfortunately a lot of atheists end up actually agreeing with the common theist premise that without a god there is nihilism, only concluding in favor of it rather than against it as the theist does. And then again as I was basically saying before, the theist is a nihilist themselves, only one who uses god as a mask for it. But the underlying premise that nihilism, at least in the realm of morality, is the natural result of atheism is obviously false.

Well, I think that only some religious beliefs are cynical. If you take the claim "there is no objective good in reality" alone, it's cynical. But if you add the claim "the man in the sky makes it better," it isn't. Not exactly a winning combination, though.

Brainpolice:

Well unfortunately a lot of atheists end up actually agreeing with the common theist premise that without a god there is nihilism, only concluding in favor of it rather than against it as the theist does. And then again as I was basically saying before, the theist is a nihilist themselves, only one who uses god as a mask for it. But the underlying premise that nihilism, at least in the realm of morality, is the natural result of atheism is obviously false.

That is a bit of a problem and one that kept me away from atheism for a long time.  I think we need as a movement to come up with something to go along with atheism because it comes acrossed so empy to to people I think this is why we haven't been as effective.  I enjoy the word pantheism because to me it means some one who finds virtue and good in truth and reality its self, but sadly this word is quite ambigious and confusing.

by the way brainpolice did you used to be on a myspace group called "Fight For Liberty"

by the way brainpolice did you used to be on a myspace group called "Fight For Liberty"

Yea, that was forever ago, before it closed down or whatever.

I am pretty sure I remember you.  That group was pretty helpful to me.  It was when I was first becoming a libertarian.  I remember your commentary was quite helpful at the time.