Freedomain Radio

Both me and my friend are the only atheists at work, and we have recently decided to start being more open about it.  We work at a cabinet shop and its a very personal setting where everyone knows each other quite well, and most of us are friends.  As you could have guessed contention started up quickly.

I found out later that as I was away one of my friends there said to my atheist friend "how dare you say I won't see my mother and sister again" (they are dead of course).  I was very upset about this, at first I didn't totally even understand why I mean its just a stupid arguement right (or more like the lack of one)?  But later as I thought about it I think I realized why.

What this person was doing was giving us a friendship ultimatum.  Either I should be ashamed of my beliefs or I am a bad friend/person/I hate my friends dead mother.

Then you start to realize... a friend doesn't do this at all.

I am sure there was more to it then that, but I think thats most of it.  If he truly believes he will see them again after death why would he care what the hell I think about it?

I just felt like sharing that.

What you say - all of it - is quite true.

I commend you on your honesty and your courage, my friend.

What are you feeling now? You mentioned you were upset before - has this persisted?

Charlotte:

What you say - all of it - is quite true.

I commend you on your honesty and your courage, my friend.

What are you feeling now? You mentioned you were upset before - has this persisted?

Not nearly as much but its still there along with some sadness.  Its just strange to see some one that seemed to be very down to earth and mellow people resort to such childness and frank manipulation

I guess they don't know any better...

After being brainwashed all thier lives, any statement contradicting their irrational beleifs (especialy the ones with emotional bonds woven in) will bring out irrational reactions.

The very same emotional blackmail was the thing that was used on them during their brainwashing.. "Child!! if you don't believe what i'm telling you then you are a BAD person"

It's all evidence of the sick mental abuse inflicted on their childhood minds.

I think your reaction to that situation was quite natural. I don't know that it was an ultimatum in this particular circumstance, but you are right that friends don't put friends in those kind of awkward situations. I'd say let them go on believing that they're going to see their dead relatives again. Most people are religious because they don't want to face the truth. Just because you think you are going to go to sleep at night and dream about rainbows and unicorns doesn't mean that you will, same goes for religion. Just because you believe it, doesn't make it true.

Remember119104:

 

I found out later that as I was away one of my friends there said to my atheist friend "how dare you say I won't see my mother and sister again" (they are dead of course).  I was very upset about this, at first I didn't totally even understand why I mean its just a stupid arguement right (or more like the lack of one)?  But later as I thought about it I think I realized why.

To me this seems like one of the sickest things about a religion focused around an afterlife. I was at a funeral of teenage relative that died a tragic death and I couldn't understand how most people around me displayed little emotion and hardly shed a tear. A year later when I discussed my atheism with my sister she brought this up and suddenly felt all of the pain and loss and started sobbing when she considered that an afterlife might not really exist and she might never see the relative again. Of course the instinctive reaction was to be angry at me as if I caused afterlife to not exist.

It is the same non-argument argument that my mother uses on me when I bring up my lack of faith.  It goes something like this:

Me:  "I don't believe any of that religious stuff."

Mom: "Oh, so Dad is just rotting in the ground?!"    "That's just great!"

Me:  "Why would you be sad about his death if you thought that you would be with him forever soon?"

Mom:  "I don't want to talk about."

I found out later that as I was away one of my friends there said to my atheist friend "how dare you say I won't see my mother and sister again" (they are dead of course). 

I don't want to sound sadistic in any way but that part was quite funny to me as an atheist, ofcourse a friend doesn't do that kind of ultimatum at all but the way I see the word friend is probably different from most people's, I've put many people in situations like that before because I just can't stand some things like trying to convert me or constantly talking about their idiotic beliefs it's just insulting to me to have to hear someone trying to make me belive in that magical invisible man in the sky.

Now ofcourse if a true friend of mine would come to me and say I started to belive in god (wich I don't think any of them is dumb enough to do so) I would accept it as long as he or she didn't try to convince me of it's existence.