Freedomain Radio

I dunno, but the idea of a multigenerational project to get rid of the government feels alright, but im just not so sure about being satisfied with that.  One of the reasons FDR and the Dro model stick out for me is that they really work and they would reform our society greatly if allowed to catch, and that objectively, consumers strive for the benefits that dro's would offer, but are only held back by ideas inflicted on them by family and government. 

I want to see the world change within my lifetime...  right now..   and as far as the developped countries of this world go, we have the resources, knowledge, and freedom of thought (meaning we wont get killed for saying something or have more ideological flebility..) to spread these ideas in a way that doesnt raise the defenses of the false self, but also allow and in a way force the true self to come out in order to flourish within the society.

I'm trying to maybe work towards a way to put governments out of business, not so much by uprooting them, fighting them, or changing the mind of everyone in the world, but simply by an entity that directly competes with governments.  Not individual governments, but the whole idea of governments.  a certain business that overtime makes governements more and more obsolete and self-contradictory..     unprofitable.

Im wondering if anyone has went that route...  because i have a few business models in mind that may be able to remove governments within a few years to a decade if implemented properly and i want to refine my ideas further.  cause it feels to simple to be right.

http://freeamerica.ws/freedom.html

kevin11:

http://freeamerica.ws/freedom.html

i like the site, but i was thinking more along the lins of actual businesses that would slowly introduce the dro way of doing things to the market

You have to remember though that the government still has the ability to tax people to provide funding for their services.  Also you could immediately expect the government to put regulations up to strangle any new innovative industries/companies from making them obsolete.

I don't remember what it's called but there's a term for basically just doing business via the black market.  Or just not documenting stuff as much as you usually do so that you pay less in taxes.  Ah I just remembered it's called "agorism" and I think that's a pretty good way to start things off.

I think we all like the idea of revealing that government is unnecessary and it's always worth a try but you can count on governments doing anything they can to undermine the success of such organizations.

i dunno.  i wasnt expecting to circumvent the whole tax and legal process.  i mean the code of conduct for members is not so out of the norm..  the people who join can still pay taxes and pretty much operate within the same laws (of course a company like that wouldt try to gain support in a chaotic and violent place or some conutry where women are killed for showing skin).  pretty much no stealing, murder, rape, fraud, and the thing that i thought would make this so cool is that once its off the ground..  since all members agreed to not agress against anyone, and since the comunities that are able to allow this idea will work towards risk reduction and higher standards of behavior than that of the general population so countries dont get pissed at us for trying to "get rid of government"  and so its at least harder to come up with a moral reason for attacking said "nonviolence based organizaion".    i think it can gain acceptance in this world based on how its presented to everyone.

and sure some fees may go up but i e3xpect the popularity and growth of the company will be enuff to reduce such actions against said company just based on its premises.  some company that says it doesnt matter where you live, u have a right to a nonviolent life and no one should threaten you with such actions for crimes that can be reconciled financially or through reputation..   only when one breaks the code of conduct is the company then powerless to defend said person from reprocutions.  

i still have more ideas about where i want it to go, but i want it to start out as a get out of jail card, for popularity and support from all the classes, and then turn it into some thing that because u agreed to it, now ur child is not so much urs and agression agains children is penalised greatly..  so most will join thinking some cool progressive idea about changing the way the world works without realizing that their parenting is now highly restricted because the companies begin treating children as future customers, (the most imprtant actually since they have so much battery life left) and all expenses are expected to be paid by parents until child is mature enough to chose to cover said bill if he likes them. i dont so much care about how my company interacts with governments..  but about how it begins treating and organizing communities of people, the way a dro would and that because of its moral irrefutability, it will be hard for most to pass it up without some kind of umm..   embarassment maybe.  "o so i guess u just wanna agress against people" 

 i mean all the company asks is an agreement to not be violent.   and any members already in who feel the pressure to leave the company because they want to "agress" against their children unabated, well that much more we'll make such a list of people public and throw some shame their way for pretty much admitting that they wants to harm children   i dunno.. i know im way out there.. but i think this idea is different than mechant law or black/gray markets, or even insurance companies.   

poeple already pay that much anyway as far as the government goes, so how much more to ensure a nonviolent community, automatic credibility and respect and credit within such communities because of an agreement and not a threat.  all the insurance company does is work to protect members from government and personal violence. im not sure how it would all turn out in real life, but i think it will catch and memberships with certain companies, if more than one arise, will be looked upon as a kind of second nationality where u still obey the local mafia, but have a worlwide community of people to whom that matter is insignificant, just that you are another human like them who does not support violence in any form and wants to be left alone.

The problem with this idea is that it is very difficult to compete with free, and government services are basically free (if you accept that you are paying taxes regardless of whether you use them).  This type of project does work eventually but it takes a long time as you wait for the government service to deteriorate to the point where no one wants it even though it is free.  This is what has happened with business mail and package delivery:  even though the USPS is heavily subsidized, their service is so bad and inefficient that people use private parcel carriers anyway. 

As someone mentioned above, the way to really break the government's hold on the private sector is to begin transacting in some alternative currency.  Of course competing currencies are illegal precisely because private currencies would obstruct the government's ability to meddle in private transactions.  But, if any sort of private transactional network ever took hold, that would be the first step to completely freeing ourselves of government coercion. 
 

well i kinda have a reply to you in a form of a question....... which is that are visa frquent flyer miles or online credits that can be traded for prizes or cash and stumble exchanges for paypal dollars...  or paypal dollars themselves..  wouldnt they be in the category of such transactional mediums.  are they violently opposed?

and you kinda prove my point when USPS which is a subsidized program is still passed up and people are willing to spend more for a more efficient private company.  and the approach i'm taking would not directly compete with existing government services..   the government offers protection and community sevices in exchange for taxation, supposedly,   and they would still receive that taxation, although certain members of the community would prefer to also pay for a private service which is far better.   private schools, private toll roads, private clinics and private health insurance, people pay for their own homes although their taxes are still used to house the unproductive..  why dont they just stay unproductive but instead chose to pay both? people appreciate quality..  and if the government is so innefective as is argued here..  i think a business organised in a certain manner is sure to be able to ouclass governments in everyway by applying UPB principles.  its been done in many other fields, why not this one?

Well, after reading this line in obama's latest speech, ""We can't drive our SUVs and eat as much as we want and keep our homes on 72 degrees at all times ... and then just expect that other countries are going to say OK," Obama said," (This of course implies we need Food Police (ration stamps?) and monitoring of our home thermostats by some agency to know just what is the temp. in our homes) I find it a real shame that we can't have the option of "Leave the Office Vacant" running on the ballot. That would do it until some court ruled, Oh no no no no no, we just can't have that.

So..............the way it looks to me is, short of living in the woods, or going to another non-english speaking country (the english speaking countries seem to spend an inordinate amount of resources on Law Enforcement/police/etc.) you're just never going to have political freedom in your lifetime.  In many South American Countries lots of laws exist too, however, the police pretty much leave you alone as long as you aren't making waves. 

I've found the same is true of (to varying degrees) Germany and Italy and Spain.  Lotsa laws, little enforcement in everyday life.   (No sobriety checkpoints, no random stops, certainly no terrist training drills, no FEMA or multi jurisdictional task forces and certainly no SWAT Teams doing warrant service at 3:00am or raiding the wrong house for drugs between 2300 and 0800 during the day.)

well...  im not so sure about the woods.. but if it took having to integrate within more lax governments that dont speak english before involving the US and ,major powers, it still doenst make the idea an impossibility.  either way.. i was still not talkin about a place where the enforcement is not there..  i actualy want a place that enforces, so that when they stop violently enforcing on certain crimes or are hoodwinked into rejecting a certain part of their own theory on enforecement and are outperformed by aprivate company , itll just bring that topic up to discussion about how innefective previous enforcement was and how self contradictory the values are.  the whole argument about the justice system can be brought to the table without having to "revolution" or "everybody join together and not vote"    

my main thing with this business is not sso much the way government treat folk,. because as mentioned here..   your family is your government  . i want my ccompany to work on the abstract government, by also changing things in personal interactions by forcing members to get on the NAP bandwagon to stay out of jail, while at the same time protecting their children and dependents from them  kinda reduces all the power structures to people and the companies responsible and invested in keepin em safe from violent interactions.

Problem: If you piss them off they will shut you down and kill you.  It happened to private cops in California, and they weren't even trying to put the Gov out of business.

Basically until people reject the State you can only try to make out as best you can for yourself and those you care about.  When people do reject the state no one needs to lift a finger.  The State sees competing allegiance as just as much a threat as direct violence and will respond the same way, and succeed unless a philosophy of freedom underpins the fact.  Like La Boétie said, "I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break into pieces?"

jimmy:

I like Karl Hess as well. Have you seen the documentary Toward Liberty?

Yeah, I have it.  I was actually going to rewatch it sometime soon.