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Latest post 03-28-2008 6:42 AM by attis. 2 replies.
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  • 03-20-2008 3:03 PM

    • attis
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on 03-20-2008
    • Posts 5

    A problem of mine.

    I've recently joined the forum, but I did so out of a problem that I have in a debate. Right now, I've been debating someone on the wider context of whether the State is better than individuals deciding for themselves. Currently, I'm at the impasse to explain why morality is objective (relation to calling the State an immoral agency for its use of violence to solve problems), or more maybe it should be called relevant, to the issue. Essentially, his argument can be summarized as follows: since everyone frames their moral arguments from their context, and everyone has a different context (a different mindset, intent, and etc), then morality must be subjective since it is entirely made up from that context regardless of the consequences. Now, I've answered this as simply stating that since there are outside consequences for given actions based on certain moral (or immoral) arguments makes such arguments objective in that the consequences originate outside the person's own context (that is it comes from other people or moral agents). His reply to this answer was that because it only applies to human beings then it is still subjective (which I think is a non-sequitur considering you can parse the moral arguments from the human beings as to model an invariant pattern of actions to consequences). In the end, it seems to me that his view is that all morality is a matter of subjective compromises between individuals, which makes little to me considering there must be something of an objective value to even make compromises possible (some sort of transaction or something else that can be called a measure of sorts).

     

    How would any of you answer this? Or is it even worth the trouble to answer?

     

    -- Brede 

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  • 03-21-2008 2:33 PM In reply to

    Re: A problem of mine.

    Ask if him if he would accept the moral theory that, all other things being equal,  it is ok for you to murder him and take all of his money but its immoral for him to do the same to you.

    Hopefully he'll say no to this and then you can point out that morality isnt 100% subjective. You guys can probably take it from there. Get a copy of UPB it goes into more detail on this topic.

  • 03-28-2008 6:42 AM In reply to

    • attis
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on 03-20-2008
    • Posts 5

    Re: A problem of mine.

    Sadly, I've gotten him that far before, but he keeps going back to his stomping grounds like a stubborn mule. I think he's being implicitly dishonest about the consequences of his ideas, guarding himself from having to dwell on the unpleasant implications of his ideas.
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