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Latest post 11-24-2008 3:47 PM by John Ess. 33 replies.
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  • 08-25-2008 2:04 PM In reply to

    Re: Thoughts on Homosexuality and Child Abuse(?)

     The majority of Freud's theories have been dismissed on the basis that his studies were very biased, or he would merely theorize without proof. Freud spent a lot of time passing the blame of abusive parenting unto children, by stating that children wanted to have sex with their parents; going so far as to state that children made up sexual abuse because of a Oedipus complex. In regards to his views on sexuality--homosexuality or other wise--I wouldn't give him to much credence.

    "Any system of belief that forces children to lie to attain the praise of their elders is corrupt." Jason McLaughlin

  • 08-25-2008 4:32 PM In reply to

    Re: Thoughts on Homosexuality and Child Abuse(?)

    I would have to disagree.  If u look at homosexuality in animals you find that there not really homosexual at all but bisexual. an animal that has sex with the same sex wouldnt turn down a chance to mate the the opposite sex. I wonder if animals including humans arent really born with a preference to one sex. I also find it funny that the terms homosexual and hetrosexual didnt really exist before the 1900's

  • 08-26-2008 9:07 AM In reply to

    Re: Thoughts on Homosexuality and Child Abuse(?)

    I'm having a hard time understanding your post David. Do you mean that animals are all bisexual? Do you have proof of this?

     

     

    "Any system of belief that forces children to lie to attain the praise of their elders is corrupt." Jason McLaughlin

  • 08-26-2008 12:41 PM In reply to

    Re: Thoughts on Homosexuality and Child Abuse(?)

    Carlos Morales:

    I'm having a hard time understanding your post David. Do you mean that animals are all bisexual? Do you have proof of this?

     

     

    I think he might be referring to this article.  If not it's still interesting.

    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/07/0722_040722_gayanimal.html

    "If you could just stop scratching yourself, I'd like to talk about the cubist period."
  • 09-09-2008 3:52 PM In reply to

    Re: Thoughts on Homosexuality and Child Abuse(?)

    yeah I must say that I'm gay, have never been sexually abused in any way to my knowledge...and have talked to quite a few other gay males about this and have found no correlation.  From my own experience and from others' stories it seems to be something that is mostly if not completely determined by biological factors.

     

  • 09-09-2008 3:57 PM In reply to

    Re: Thoughts on Homosexuality and Child Abuse(?)

    That is certainly what the science seems to indicate at the moment....


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  • 09-09-2008 4:22 PM In reply to

    Re: Thoughts on Homosexuality and Child Abuse(?)

    Is there any evidence to suggest that abuse occurs more frequently in the households from which gay children come?

    I'm curious about this, not so much because I'm looking for a causal factor in homosexuality, but more because I'm wondering if Stef's suggestion earlier might be true: that homosexuals experience more abuse just by virtue of being identified as such, by their parents...

     

  • 11-23-2008 9:46 AM In reply to

    Re: Thoughts on Homosexuality and Child Abuse(?)

    Hey I thought I'd contribute to this conversation since I'm a 22 year old gay man.

    I don't ever recall being abused as a child.  I loved both my parents up until my dad started cheating on my mom and left us.  I've always felt I had a much closer relationship with my mother than with my dad, mostly because he was always off at work and I was never very interested in sports.

    I have never, ever been even slightly attracted to girls/women.  I even remember having little crushes on my male classmates as far back as first grade.  So I'm more inclined to think my homosexuality is biological... but I'm open to the idea there are other causes as well.

    Either way, I'd like to emphasize something:  if there were a pill or a cure I could take, that would make me straight, I would do it in a skinny minute.  Being gay is not a choice, and I can't wait until science finds a cure.  I'm not sure I'd say the same thing if I was currently in a loving relationship with another guy...

     

  • 11-23-2008 10:17 AM In reply to

    Re: Thoughts on Homosexuality and Child Abuse(?)

    I'll chime in with my thoughts.

    I was watching a teaching company lecture series on the brain and it had some interesting statements on sex.  First we can clasify the sex of a animal/person in 3 ways.  1) chromisonal ie. people can have xx or xy but have different sex organs.  2) Sex organs 3) brain/mind ie someone feels they are of different sex than there body.

    On to the third one.  The doctor in the study said the the make-up of males and females brians can be shown to be different.  and for humans the development stage that causes the brain to "become" male or female is prenatal.  Interesting also this solidifing of the sex of the brain happens postnatal in rats(or mice forget).  so with mice they have fiddled(for lack of a better word) with their brain chemistry before/durning the time this "development" happens.  Causing male mice to act like females and vice versa.

    Now with it said that the brain chemistry is different.  I read a study (years back so no citiation sorry) that tried to see if people asociating themselves as gay they could actually determine if they were.  By showing pictures that would were determined to give an sexually emotional response they found the 90% of people asociating themselves as gay had the same reaction as a straight person for the gender approiate image.

      Will try to find the articles for these. 

    --sorry no spell check---

  • 11-23-2008 10:19 AM In reply to

    Re: Thoughts on Homosexuality and Child Abuse(?)

    If child abuse is what causes homosexuality, it would seem that the further back in history you go and the further away from the developed world you go the gayer things would get.  Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan would be like one big disco or shopping mall.  (which would be pretty cool, unlike the current situation).

    Just a theory -- I'm really just a smart aleck, not a scientist.

  • 11-23-2008 10:26 AM In reply to

    Re: Thoughts on Homosexuality and Child Abuse(?)

    forget the word for this but look up history of sex with boys.  there is wikipedia articles on it and spefically its history and previalance in cultures.  including afganistan.  japanese sumuria classes.

  • 11-23-2008 10:32 AM In reply to

    Re: Thoughts on Homosexuality and Child Abuse(?)

    found it

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pederasty

    A little story about how I came to read about this one night.  I was at a friends house one night and a guy that we hadn't seen in years was in town and he was coming over to play poker.  turned out he joined the military and just got back from afganistan.  And asking him what it was like he said he fucking hated the place.  Telling me they were ass backward and fucked up.  Specifically they would have sex with boys like it was normal and acceptable.  So I decided to looking their culture.  and after lots of clicking read this and its pretty previalent in eastern and medival cultures.  some fucked up shit IMHO

  • 11-23-2008 11:49 AM In reply to

    Re: Thoughts on Homosexuality and Child Abuse(?)

    Oh, I'm sure that happened in the past and in specifically Afghanistan.  But I wonder why it did not create the gay culture.

    Pederasty is higher (and probably universal in some areas) and yet I do not see evidence that homosexuality has taken over (like culture warriors say about homosexuals in the US).  Or that there are even higher numbers.

  • 11-23-2008 12:45 PM In reply to

    • catsajak
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    Re: Thoughts on Homosexuality and Child Abuse(?)

    I think there very well could be high numbers of homosexuals over there, the only problem is that if they are open about it they will probably be hung or stoned to death.

  • 11-23-2008 7:20 PM In reply to

    • Cooper MacLean
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on 09-21-2006
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    Re: Thoughts on Homosexuality and Child Abuse(?)

    I have read books by (former) soldiers who were in Afghanistan.  They described homosexuality in Afghanistan as sort of like prison sex.  That is, men and women are so segregated and often married men are away from their wives for long periods that homosexuality is seen as a release of biological urges rather than a particular "lifestyle" or choice...it is simply a means of continuing human sexuality by other means than the most socially accepted way.  Although, the descriptions of the acts and others' reactions to it gave me the impression that it was more highly accepted by Afghans than by Americans.  Such as one soldier describing the first time he witnessed it, a few Afghan men were on break from the work project this American was supervising; two Afghan men went over behind a tree and began having sex and the American broke them up threatening them with his rifle.  The other Afghan men simply sat around and smoked, ate lunch, talked, and laughed when the tryst was broken up.

    A man I know who actually went there said that pederasty was common.  He and others at the free care clinic he was assigned to called it "Good Friday, Bad Saturday."  He said that every Friday (the Islamic Sabbath) after the main prayers were over, young boys would be dressed as effeminately or androgynously as possible then the older men would have sex with them.  That was Good Friday; the next morning or Bad Saturday was when all the mothers of these young boys (he said they Afghan men made a point to pick pre-pubescent or slightly pubescent boys since they appeared more feminine to begin with and had no facial hair) would bring them into his clinic for treatment.  He said it was horrible, they were treated of course for the physical signs of repeated anal rape and that they cried, feared the touch of men like the doctors or nurses, or seemed catatonic like someone who had run out of tears to cry anymore.  He explained that this was a weekly occurrence and some of the same boys were seen repeatedly so it seemed like the whole village was aware of it and nothing was done to stop it.  He also said that the fathers never came which lead him to believe that they probably participated in it even if not with their own children but allowed theirs to be raped so that they may rape another's children.  Horrible, he said that bothered him more than anything else over there and also made him realize that he was fighting to maintain a horrible status quo.  He got out after that tour in Afghanistan.

    Also, the Afghans use sodomy as a control tool, like in American prisons, to humiliate their enemies.  One reason Russian soldiers began carrying grenades to kill themselves with during the Afghan-USSR war was that soldiers taken alive were subjected to gang rape and being held, for as long as they lived considering the abuse and starvation they would face, as "war brides" of the Afghans who captured them.  The CIA in the 80's even got photos of makeshift brothels which were nothing more than captured Russian soldiers held bent over in a sort of pillory with dozens of Afghan men lined up behind whichever one they chose to take their turn.  The CIA of course did not get too outraged at this but when they found out that some of the prized pack-mules donated by US breeders to help the Afghans were also being used in the same way as were the Russian captives, then the CIA threatened to not send the mujahideen anymore mules.

    So, in Afghanistan being "gay" is not as easy to pin down as in the West. Though to us, at least to me, gay sex seems fairly prevalent. Even if you could not call the cultural attachments to it an umbrella social phenomenon like we would call being gay or homosexuality as a cultural identity it seems that they accept it so long as it is simply isolated actions that are kept apart from "normal" sexual behavior.  But I also suspect that this type of behavior continues out of the "victim becomes victimizer" mentality.  

    "Better a cruel truth than a comfortable delusion." - Edward Abbey

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