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Latest post 11-10-2007 5:46 PM by UGGACHUCKA. 22 replies.
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  • 10-30-2007 10:26 AM

    Stef and Wilt on immigration - a new article...


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  • 10-30-2007 10:42 AM In reply to

    Re: Stef and Wilt on immigration - a new article...

    Stef and Wilt make quite the intellectual powerhouse when they team up.

    I am looking forward to more joint articles by you two!

  • 10-30-2007 11:00 AM In reply to

    Re: Stef and Wilt on immigration - a new article...

    Another great article Stef, Wilt, as always!
  • 10-30-2007 12:00 PM In reply to

    Re: Stef and Wilt on immigration - a new article...

    I appreciate the article's research for evidence of the past.  I think the concluding portion is shaky.

    A central tactic of governments around the world is to make people afraid of each other, rather than of their governments.
    By giving the government more power t keep others out, we are only giving the government more power to keep us down.
    Aren't these two sentences, taken out of the article's conclusion, at odds with understanding government as a concept?  Okay, they're probably a good hook for STR readers who rail against The Man.

    But let's rephrase the sentences as:

    A central tactic of concepts around the world is to make people afraid of each other, rather than of their concepts.
    By giving the concept more power t keep others out, we are only giving the concept more power to keep us down.
    and we can see that the sentences are personifying government.  Concepts don't use tactics, and we don't give concepts anything.

  • 10-30-2007 12:24 PM In reply to

    Re: Stef and Wilt on immigration - a new article...

    Governments aren't concepts.  They're groups of people.

    ...people use concepts all the time.

    (Using the government to solve any problem, but particularly that of immigration is what is shaky.)

    "There are none so enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free." ~ Goethe

    "Everything the state says is a lie and everything it has, it has stolen." ~ Nietzsche, from "Thus Spake Zarathustra"

  • 10-31-2007 2:25 AM In reply to

    • Joe
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on 10-31-2006
    • San Diego, CA
    • Posts 233
    • Philosopher King

    Re: Stef and Wilt on immigration - a new article...

    I was wondering how you would view just partial implementation of Paul's Proposed Policies, ie just deny them benefits.

      What if the govt's (state, city and county) just deny these people social services, ie schools, food, housing, hospitals (many of which have gone bankrupt under the strain of unpaid bills in the SOCAL area)?

    Also, what about the concept of anchor babies?  Just because you are born on US soil shouldn't automatically confer citizenship, or should it? 

    They come for economic benefits, welfare, citizenship, and jobs and some of them (La Raza) reconquista - why you would want to annex the US back to the country you just fled is beyond me).  It would be interesting to see what effect stopping the  welfare and automatic citizenship benefits would have on the rate of immigration.  In other words, what effect would it have on immigration if the govt stopped granting economic incentives to come here?  

    (I think the declining US economy has already sent many back to Mexico (and in the aggregate that is who we are talking about here) as the figure of money going from the US to Mexico has dropped (as I remember it) from about 27 billion last year to 26 billion year over year).  I think that is because of the decline in the housing market - many of these people work residential construction.  If the jobs are not there, they will stop coming.) 

    I think the fundamental problem we face here, and this gets back to that extreme distaste with which Steff views the Ron Paul candidacy, is  how are we to manage living under govt between now and the time it (might, just maybe) disappear completely (and not be replaced with corporate governance either).  (I'm hoping for the concept of sole propriatorship to take root once again - a nation of shopkeepers and small outfits offering various goods and services to the public)

     

     

  • 10-31-2007 6:46 AM In reply to

    Re: Stef and Wilt on immigration - a new article...

    If you stop giving welfare to poor Americans, wouldn't that make them have fewer babies?

    Why not start with that?
     


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  • 10-31-2007 1:56 PM In reply to

    • Joe
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on 10-31-2006
    • San Diego, CA
    • Posts 233
    • Philosopher King

    Re: Stef and Wilt on immigration - a new article...

    Stefan Molyneux:

    If you stop giving welfare to poor Americans, wouldn't that make them have fewer babies?

    Why not start with that?
     

     

    Because we're talking about immigration? 

  • 10-31-2007 2:33 PM In reply to

    Re: Stef and Wilt on immigration - a new article...

    No, we're talking about those who use government services - right?


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  • 10-31-2007 5:50 PM In reply to

    Re: Stef and Wilt on immigration - a new article...

    Ah, yes. The constant switcheroo between the topic of immigration and the welfare state. Which one is it?
    "The fact that I have no remedy for all the sorrows of the world is no reason for my accepting yours. It simply supports the strong probability that yours is a fake." -- H.L. Mencken
  • 11-01-2007 9:06 AM In reply to

    • Joe
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on 10-31-2006
    • San Diego, CA
    • Posts 233
    • Philosopher King

    Re: Stef and Wilt on immigration - a new article...

    Stefan Molyneux:
    No, we're talking about those who use government services - right?

     

    I think we are talking past each other.

    I'm talking about immigration in the context of removing the economic incentives government gives people to come to this country.  Your previous remark expands the discussion far outside the immigration context and the next thing you know, we're discussing social policies for the domestic population.  It derails the discussion of immigration - I have no desire to talk about welfare for anybody as that is a closed issue as  far as I am concerned (ie it's a bad idea for govt to hand out "charity").

     

     

  • 11-01-2007 9:49 AM In reply to

    Re: Stef and Wilt on immigration - a new article...

    But people 'enter' the US through a vagina too, right?


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  • 11-01-2007 10:15 AM In reply to

    Re: Stef and Wilt on immigration - a new article...

    Brainpolice:
    Ah, yes. The constant switcheroo between the topic of immigration and the welfare state. Which one is it?

    Well, the welfare state is being used as an excuse to shoot people who move into this gang territory.  People are blaming the victim, not the perpetrator (the gov.) Thus the topic isn't being changed, THAT IS the topic.  End the welfare state and you end the excuse. 

  • 11-01-2007 11:13 AM In reply to

    Re: Stef and Wilt on immigration - a new article...

    Stefan Molyneux:
    But people 'enter' the US through a vagina too, right?

    Hahahaha!

    I'd like to apply for the border patrol, please.... Big Smile

     

  • 11-01-2007 3:57 PM In reply to

    Re: Stef and Wilt on immigration - a new article...

    Greg Gauthier:

    Stefan Molyneux:
    But people 'enter' the US through a vagina too, right?

    Hahahaha!

    I'd like to apply for the border patrol, please.... Big Smile

     

    So you want to be an obstetrician?

    I don't get it... Angel 

    I'm looking for someone to help me out with some WordPress web design for my blog - PM for details, will pay :)

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