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Latest post Tue, Apr 1 2008 10:39 AM by Nathan. 4 replies.
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  • Sat, Mar 29 2008 9:15 AM

    A Few Things That Have Been Bothering Me

    I've listened to quite a few podcasts but I'm sure there's a lot I don't know and understand about all of what Stef says.  All of his political stuff I've read about before and the thing I like best about this site is that he's now translating all the ideas in libertarian/anarchist minded books into audio and video form.  This will help the ideas reach a lot more people because I've learned over the years that lots of folks just don't want to take the time to read like I do.  So I guess the only thing that bothers me about this point is that I think it would be good for Stef to refer to the individuals and books that these ideas came from.  Then maybe more people will be interested enough to go to those sources and check them out.  I thought about this recently when I was looking up something in my dog eared copy of Murray Rothbard's For a New Liberty and I found a place where he was saying 'there is no such thing as the government,' that it's just an abstract concept.  I guess my thought around this is that books often have lots of footnotes as to where some ideas and comments originated from and how does one do that with podcasts.

    I have mixed feelings on the podcasts about family and parenting.  I think there are a lot of individual experiences and variations in our lives and so some of the things Stef proposes just seem too harsh to those of us who did not have similar upbringings.  As a matter of fact, the variety in our lives is similar to what freedom loving people believe about the free market, there are many, many paths to figuring out how you want to handle your own family life and there's no right way.  And sometimes if you just stick around, you will see some very satisfying and gratifying changes in other people.  I have two examples to share.  I was spanked a few times as a child and it affected me.  I decided not to spank my children and to raise them differently in other ways.  I did not feel a need to defoo from my parents, I just feel like they raised us with the information they had and I happened to meet people and read books that shared other ideas that made more sense so I went with those.  And here's the interesting part:  as I moved through my parenting, it became obvious that we were not using spanking and one day my dad asked me about it.  He was curious to learn more and found it interesting.  I don't think he really thought it would work but then he saw how it was turning out and became more open minded about it.  If I had just left and had no contact with him, that would not have happened.  I went through something similar when I decided to homeschool especially with my brother.  But when he started to see the evidence of how my kids were turning out, he admitted it was not a bad idea.  He even wrote me a letter apologizing for his past comments.  I guess my point here is that if it just doesn't feel right to totally defoo, you don't have to, all you need to do is have the confidence to hold your ground on what is right and perhaps you will have similar things happen. So I'm only saying that there are an infinite number of ways this can turn out and it reflects the individual life experiences we all have from the beginning of our lives.

    As to the idea that those (the average trapped citizen) who just sticks with our government system being evil, I can't quite grasp that either.  Many times it's just pragmatism and self-defense that make people do what they do even though they see the system is just plain wrong and it's not working.  And they usually don't want to think about whether it's immoral or not because they can't do a damn thing about it.  Many people I've communicated with would love it if the force were gone, but it's not.  And none of us knows how to stop it.  I do think Stef might be on a good track as he's trying to get the young people to get to a place where they understand all of this before they have kids and then if the kids are raised differently, maybe one day good things will happen to society as a whole.

    The last thing that's bothering me relates to my second paragraph and my past personal experiences I guess because it has to do with patience in helping others to change their ways of thinking.  I notice that people get banned here or are told to leave when all I see is that they are new and asking questions to try and understand things better.  If no one here has the patience to talk to these people and help them stick around so they can learn more, then what's the point?  If this is not the point, then should this board be closed to the public and have some sort of process that people would go through before they were accepted?  I'm just confused about the forum aspect of this website.

    Debbie

  • Sun, Mar 30 2008 2:16 PM In reply to

    • Rodzilla!
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Mar 9 2006
    • Ancapistan - Southern California Prefecture
    • Posts 2,649
    • Philosopher King

    Re: A Few Things That Have Been Bothering Me

    Dtomboy:
    I have mixed feelings on the podcasts about family and parenting.  I think there are a lot of individual experiences and variations in our lives and so some of the things Stef proposes just seem too harsh to those of us who did not have similar upbringings.
    Being honest with your family seems harsh to you?
  • Sun, Mar 30 2008 3:04 PM In reply to

    Re: A Few Things That Have Been Bothering Me

    Rodzilla!:
    Dtomboy:
    I have mixed feelings on the podcasts about family and parenting.  I think there are a lot of individual experiences and variations in our lives and so some of the things Stef proposes just seem too harsh to those of us who did not have similar upbringings.
    Being honest with your family seems harsh to you?

    Why would you think I think that?  Are you saying that's all Stef has ever said in relation to the family/parent issue?  If so, I have no problem with that, but I have somehow gotten a different impression on some podcasts.  And now you are going to ask me which ones and you would be correct in doing so.  But now I have no idea!  This is what frustrates me about podcasts as opposed to books and articles, it's difficult to go back quickly and find something.  Which parenting related podcast do you think is the best at laying out the basic idea of being honest with your family?

    Debbie

  • Tue, Apr 1 2008 10:33 AM In reply to

    • Dust
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Jan 10 2008
    • Ont. Canada
    • Posts 98

    Re: A Few Things That Have Been Bothering Me

    Hi Debbie,

    I wanted to respond to your second paragraph as have similar feelings about defooing. I hear the stories in podcasts and on this board of awful abuse that people have experienced, and I think "well of course these people should get as far away from their abusers as possible, they are monstrous, and evil." certainly defooing can help people who suffer at the hand of their parents and family, break there chains and find greater happiness. I felt from your post that you get an impression from Stef, that he thinks that all people should defoo. Maybe he does maybe he doesn't, but what I understand is that all he wants is for people to be free from unchosen obligation and to be as happy as possible. I would agree with you that if it doesn't feel right to defoo then you don't have to. It wouldn't be a very good anarchist/free market standpoint to say that everyone must defoo. That would be enslaving yourself to the defoo process. What I think might be the case is that all the people who write into ask a therapist and who post horror stories, are asking for help because they need it. It's like if my car is running fine I'm not going to take it into a garage to fix it (or to a junkyard), and if my relationship with my family is positive and valuable then I'm not going to feel the need to defoo. I for example enjoy my family's company, I do not feel obligated to see them, and I find value in the relationships, so I continue them. For me defooing, I feel would bring me less happyness not more.

    I like chocolate. Love is all you need.
  • Tue, Apr 1 2008 10:39 AM In reply to

    • Nathan
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Mar 23 2006
    • Philadelphia, PA
    • Posts 12,578
    • Philosopher King

    Re: A Few Things That Have Been Bothering Me

    Dtomboy:

    Rodzilla!:
    Dtomboy:
    I have mixed feelings on the podcasts about family and parenting.  I think there are a lot of individual experiences and variations in our lives and so some of the things Stef proposes just seem too harsh to those of us who did not have similar upbringings.
    Being honest with your family seems harsh to you?

    Why would you think I think that?  Are you saying that's all Stef has ever said in relation to the family/parent issue?  If so, I have no problem with that, but I have somehow gotten a different impression on some podcasts.  And now you are going to ask me which ones and you would be correct in doing so.  But now I have no idea!  This is what frustrates me about podcasts as opposed to books and articles, it's difficult to go back quickly and find something.  Which parenting related podcast do you think is the best at laying out the basic idea of being honest with your family?

    Debbie

    There is the "Philoso-Physician" on the main page, use the wizard at the bottom.  There is also "On Truth" which is free right now.

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